Vehicle Location Setting - On/Off....?

[Addabob64]

I am looking at the different components of the data I am sharing with Ford to see which ones I want to turn off. I am kind of tired of having 5-30MB of data uploaded to Ford after each drive, yet the data flowing from Ford to me is 20-100KB... Maybe if I start getting reliable OTA updates might I then start to share my data again... Anyway, that was the minor rant part.... On to the real question.....

If I turn off Vehicle Location, does anyone know if/how that impacts Blue Cruise....? I guess the question comes down to whether the BC software running on my local truck determines its own location as far as BC-enabled roads, or does it somehow rely on Ford's location services that are turned on with this afore-mentioned toggle? The specific thing that comes to mind is the message that pops up when I get on a BC highway, telling me BC is available on this road. Not sure if that is determined by the truck actively sending my location to Ford, or if that is hard-coded into the BC Map database based on the truck's GPS coordinates and therefore determined "local" to the truck's SW.

All the other things I believe I will turn off, including:

* Connected Nav (I never use Ford's Nav as I find it to be really poor)
* Media Analytics - OFF, always has been off.
* Vehicle Analytics - ON now, but will be turning off....
* Vehicle Data - ON now, but will be turning off... I believe I will loose the vehicle health report, and all of the other data points like current mileage, miles to empty, & tire pressure (although tire pressures are no longer in FP V5), so no real big loss there....
* Driving Data - ON now, but will be turning off....
* Advanced Nav Features - OFF....

I will be curious to see how much data will be uploaded after going on a drive once these changes are made....

Thanks all!

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[HammaMan]

ATT still knows where you're at, as does the truck's systems itself. Then of course there's your phone.

What's the ultimate goal here?

 

[Addabob64]

ATT still knows where you're at, as does the truck's systems itself. Then of course there's your phone.

What's the ultimate goal here?

Just looking to lower the amount of data flowing to Ford that they then, in turn, sell to others or use to market stuff to me. Just trying to be sure I understand what features I will loose based on the decisions I make for each category. I know about the vehicle data, some of which I see in Ford Pass or online at the Ford online vehicle dashboard, will be (or at least should be) no longer available, otherwise the sliders are total BS if they pull data from the AT&T link anyway...

 

[HammaMan]

Anonymized data has no impact on you and ford has thus far been unable to escape a cardboard box, let alone market something to you or me for that matter. If it was a GM I'd suggest disconnecting its ability to reach the outside world entirely. Ford on the other hand has been wholly incompetent in understanding the value of data, let alone using it for anything productive. About they only thing they've done is look at how the users of pro-power use the trucks after storms knock out power. As of today you've got nothing to worry about on that front. All you do is turn off features that give you more benefit than anyone else.

 

[rjinaz]

FP v5 has tire pressure info... Ford just buried it.
Click on the Service option and then select Vehicle health.
You get tire pressure and oil life info there.
Disabling location sharing will also disable the location feature in FordPass.

 

[Addabob64]

FP v5 has tire pressure info... Ford just buried it.
Click on the Service option and then select Vehicle health.
You get tire pressure and oil life info there.
Disabling location sharing will also disable the location feature in FordPass.

Cool.... There it is.... I thought I had looked there, but obviously hadn't. But I never use it there either, so turning it off will have little impact to me....

As for the location in FP.... Again, I never use it. I know where I parked my truck last... If the truck gets stolen, I probably would rather not get it back in a trashed state...

I still want to know if the BC function uses location services in any way, or if that location capability is truck based and uses only the local GPS service and map service. What tells the truck's BC algo when it is on a BC road....? BC Map DB or location services....?

 

[HammaMan]

BC maps are automatically pulled from the servers and it knows where it is based on its GPS antenna. Even turning off all boxes it will still call home. If you read the full data on sync, basically by using it you're agreeing to certain things. Not sure how you'd 'not' be able to use it as it's part of the vehicle.

 

[Addabob64]

BC maps are automatically pulled from the servers and it knows where it is based on its GPS antenna. Even turning off all boxes it will still call home. If you read the full data on sync, basically by using it you're agreeing to certain things. Not sure how you'd 'not' be able to use it as it's part of the vehicle.

I think you may be missing the point.... I do realize there are things that the truck will do for communicating to Ford. I also realize based on reading the Sync menus that there are 6 sliders that I can choose to turn on/off that will control some level of data that I voluntarily agree to share with Ford; Connected Nav (junk), Media Analytics (they are using this data to adjust their own service), Vehicle Analytics (what features are being used or not so they can stop development and support for stuff we already paid for), Vehicle Data (used to market their service products to us based on mileage and oil life... I see it EVERY TIME I am approaching my mileage window), Vehicle Location (sell this data to advertisers who can know routes specific people take so they can market services along that route, just like what cell phone providers do today), & Driving Data (sell to insurance companies, subpoenaed by law firms in accident cases)... Regardless of whether Ford knows HOW to use the data, others do and will. And since you say Ford doesn't even know what to do with it, they may sell it off to bolster their financial books. It just represents yet another place where we can loose control of our privacy if we are not careful.

All I am trying to find out is whether turning off Vehicle location sharing would impact the BC stuff. You seem to say it will not, and that is what I was hoping the case would be.

Never did I say I was trying to turn off the SYNC system. Yes, it is the "heart" of the system... Instead, I said I want to use the supposed controls Ford is providing to conform with rules around customer privacy and data sharing they are legally bound by, but in my research, I want to understand where that impacts features they may deliver by receiving that data so I know what I will loose.

I am surprised it seems shocking to some that people might not want to share their data. You say it is only Pro Power usage they are interested in.... Well, they are getting 5-50MB of data after every drive I make, and have only used ProPower once to try it out over 2 years ago. So obviously they are getting other data.... Saying Ford is clueless on any of this data makes it even worse, as then I wonder if they are really doing the things necessary to make the data anonymous, and then are they applying the proper data security safeguards to this stored data to insure nefarious actors don't come and steal said data and put me at some unknown risk.

You do you and I'll do me as far as understanding how our data is used. I've been in the business and know how the game is played. If you are getting a service for "no charge", then you and your data are the product.... And then, if you don't opt out, you get what you get....

 

[fordtruckman2003]

All I can do is laugh at your 50 MB when my truck is known to me to upload 2 GB or more in a week. That is with most the data sharing sliders turned off too.

You should be able to turn off every single option and your BC will still work if you have the subscription.

If something stops working you want then turn on the options one at a time to find what broke it.

 

[Addabob64]

All I can do is laugh at your 50 MB when my truck is known to me to upload 2 GB or more in a week. That is with most the data sharing sliders turned off too.

You should be able to turn off every single option and your BC will still work if you have the subscription.

If something stops working you want then turn on the options one at a time to find what broke it.

Wow!!! Well, i must have a lot less driving than you. That’s a wild amount of data you are uploading with the sliders off…. I will be turning stuff off tomorrow and will see how it affects things.

thanks

 

[HammaMan]

I think you may be missing the point....

You do you and I'll do me as far as understanding how our data is used. I've been in the business and know how the game is played. If you are getting a service for "no charge", then you and your data are the product.... And then, if you don't opt out, you get what you get....

Right, so then you also understand that by use of the sync system (aka operating your vehicle), despite hitting some buttons on-screen, still opts you into the TOS / T&C.

Additionally the notion that paying for something shifts burdens or responsibilities of the company providing the services, some how, is misplaced, you are still the product. Say for instance anybody that had/has anything to do with AT&T, whether you're their paying customer or not. Those slider buttons have no binding contract or recourse, they're not backed by any consumer protection legislation because you're agreeing to their terms by operating the vehicle -- you can't even gain access to the complete data they're collecting and they don't even tell you. The buttons might make you 'feel' better, even lull you into a false sense of security by removing YOUR access to remote features, but ultimately it's worth nothing more than some 'feels-good' and reduced utility on your end. You lock yourself out of remote features but ford is still going to collect what they're going to collect, legally, because you're using the "product".

They've got the typical legal disclosures and ambiguous statements allowing them to do as they please in accordance with applicable law and the acceptance of the agreement by use of the product, and of course "or help protect the ... users of our vehicles...or the public". Do I really need to explain how that gate isn't open, but non existent. Turn off most things other than the vehicle data / location and enjoy your free fordpass app that you can use anywhere on the planet there's internet. GM charges you $15/mo for this service that ford gives you free.

Of course GM also sells their data to lexisnexis. SiriusXM might keep trying to get you to activate their 20yr old poor-bitrate radio service and that's it. I have 2 sync 4 vehicles with over 2 years of ownership and I've noticed zero change in the crap in the mailbox or ford selling my email address they have to 3rd parties. As of today and the last 2 years there's been no 'there', here. If that changes, it'll warrant looking into. I don't really care about anonymized data in their hands. There's LPRs everywhere and your TCU is still chatting away to the cell towers, continuously.

PS: Close the app when not in use, fully, not minimized.

 

[fordtruckman2003]

Yep, in the US until something changes businesses own you. EU is a bit different with stricter privacy laws and ability to opt out or delete data for most things. Big tech gets in trouble often over there for stepping out of line. We are quite literally decades behind on technology laws in this country.

 

[HammaMan]

Yep, in the US until something changes businesses own you. EU is a bit different with stricter privacy laws and ability to opt out or delete data for most things. Big tech gets in trouble often over there for stepping out of line. We are quite literally decades behind on technology laws in this country.

Yeah, we need some robust data ownership laws in the US. It's just too easy for tech to buy influence. Besides the ai needs it to create a path for everyone. US and EU legislation is a funny thing. On the US side you have US companies that went global but still have roots in the US, and the EU has the same inverse like VW Fiat airbus. So US laws are more tailored around big tech getting what it wants, but EU doesn't really have big tech because in trying to stop the googles facebooks, they created a hostile environment for tech companies. Now they're doing the same with ai and they're quickly lagging behind / creating a hostile environment that doesn't foster innovation.

We really need a good case to go before SCOTUS regarding privacy, big tech, and section 230. Tech and the MIC are just too cozy scratching each other's back subverting the constitution. I'd especially like to see 5 eyes get backhanded in regards to them violating each other's laws for the other (not likely to happen). At least that approach requires another state to do the other's bidding, still the relationship is too cozy. That only really serves the interest of the other states, while doing nothing to protect the citizens of a country from abuses within via proxy.

The only means for true privacy today is to remove all tech from your life entirely, and not living around it (aka hide in the woods) while using a flip phone that's only on when you need to reach out. You either have tech and its convenience or isolation with privacy. Even the woods approach is still subject to continual overhead surveillance which for now is still pretty limited. That'll fade away with what spacex and northrup is building for the govt. It's a LEO sat constellation with continual optical and radar mapping of the globe combined with signals intelligence feeding directly into a digital twin of the planet being run by a centralized ai, scraping data from every sensor (phones, vehicles, data sources, cameras) it can get its hands on. Along with the capability to dispatch a drone for a closer look. Won't be long before most municipalities have autonomous drones that can be called upon by agencies under the guise of natsec.

 

[rjinaz]

FYI... your driving data choice is irrelevant when it comes to accidents.
Turning it on or off has no impact on the data being stored.
Every modern vehicle has a "black box" and that data can be retrieved regardless of your selection on Sync.
Ford can subpoenaed to retrieve it and provide it for an accident investigation.

Ford, or any other manufacturer, can't arbitrarily give that data to any insurance company without your consent. That would be illegal.
Pay close attention to what you agree to on those screens. Insurance data collection option on my truck is off and grayed out.
It can't be turned on unless I opt in to Ford's insurance program.


https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driver-tracking-insurance.html#:~:text=Ford “does not transmit any,in usage-based insurance programs.

From the article... "Ford “does not transmit any connected vehicle data to either partner,” said a spokesman, Alan Hall, but partnered with them “to explore ways to support customers” who want to take part in usage-based insurance programs. Ford will share driving behavior from a car directly with an insurance company, he said, when a customer gives explicit consent via an in-vehicle touch screen."

FTC is already investigating GM for their shady data collection policies.

 

[HammaMan]

FYI... your driving data choice is irrelevant when it comes to accidents.
Turning it on or off has no impact on the data being stored.
Every modern vehicle has a "black box" and that data can be retrieved regardless of your selection on Sync.
Ford can subpoenaed to retrieve it and provide it for an accident investigation.

Ford, or any other manufacturer, can't arbitrarily give that data to any insurance company without your consent. That would be illegal.
Pay close attention to what you agree to on those screens. Insurance data collection option on my truck is off and grayed out.
It can't be turned on unless I opt in to Ford's insurance program.


https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driver-tracking-insurance.html#:~:text=Ford “does not transmit any,in usage-based insurance programs.

From the article... "Ford “does not transmit any connected vehicle data to either partner,” said a spokesman, Alan Hall, but partnered with them “to explore ways to support customers” who want to take part in usage-based insurance programs. Ford will share driving behavior from a car directly with an insurance company, he said, when a customer gives explicit consent via an in-vehicle touch screen."

FTC is already investigating GM for their shady data collection policies.

GM is shady shady.

I have the ford insure and it only watches you for the first few months and will provide up to a 40% discount based on driving habits. Just got a 12% bump in rates after 2 years of having it which coincides with insurance companies losing 12 cents on the dollar last year due to claims. The insured having to subsidize the uninsured is getting old.

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