7.2kW Powerboost ProPower generator put to the test.... max sustained draw / output

[Snakebitten]

this is what put the powerboost on my radar and intrigued me enough to dig deeper and realize this is my retirement truck.

I imagine that's the story for some number of folks?

Of the 1/4 million people that viewed it, if even just 1 in 100 had no knowledge of the Powerboost but saw the significance and utility of such a truck existing... It'd be several thousand guys with the same impression you described.

Honestly, I'm amazed the 3rd year of production is now starting and nobody has fired a volly. It has to be coming, right?

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[christophers]

I imagine that's the story for some number of folks?

Of the 1/4 million people that viewed it, if even just 1 in 100 had no knowledge of the Powerboost but saw the significance and utility of such a truck existing... It'd be several thousand guys with the same impression you described.

Honestly, I'm amazed the 3rd year of production is now starting and nobody has fired a volly. It has to be coming, right?

I've been hoping. I felt really let down by Ford when they rolled out the new super duty and it only comes with 2kW... If chevy comes out with something similar to the 7.2kW in a 3/4 ton my f150 will not be missed...

 

[Snakebitten]

I've been hoping. I felt really let down by Ford when they rolled out the new super duty and it only comes with 2kW... If chevy comes out with something similar to the 7.2kW in a 3/4 ton my f150 will not be missed...

I've often wondered if someone would volley but in a very different way than the Powerboost. In other words, don't approach ProPower as a byproduct of building a Hybrid pickup truck, but rather build an ordinary pickup truck with the sole intent of ProPower add on.
Basically a small HV battery similar to the Powerboost (which really is small), the necessary inverter, and a belt driven generator for recharging the battery.

Or just imagine if Yamaha or Honda decided to insert a HV battery between their ICE and the inverter. The ICE would only need to run when the load had depleted the battery. Do exactly the same but use the existing ICE under the hood of the truck to drive like a PTO-electric charging motor of the HV battery and then put the 120-240V inverter on the back of the battery.

Probably far less weight than all the Hybrid gear required to participate in the drivetrain. Far less complicated management system. Nothing more than a tucked away ProPower generator.

I swear whoever tried it could upcharge just as much for the ProPower only system that Ford charges for the whole upgrade from 3.5 Ecoboost to 3.5 Powerboost Hybrid.

 

[christophers]

yeah, i only want the power, i don't need the hybrid part of it (although it's nifty). the only reason we have the PB is that it can power our entire airstream. as a texan, if it can power the aircon, it's a winner haha

 

[Snakebitten]

Actually, Yamaha and Honda should offer a "quiet" version.
Yea, they were considered quiet for a generator until the Powerboost came along.
Not having to rev the Rpms based on load turns out to be a winner!
Putting that battery between the ICE and the inverter changes the game.

 

[HammaMan]

I've often wondered if someone would volley but in a very different way than the Powerboost. In other words, don't approach ProPower as a byproduct of building a Hybrid pickup truck, but rather build an ordinary pickup truck with the sole intent of ProPower add on.
Basically a small HV battery similar to the Powerboost (which really is small), the necessary inverter, and a belt driven generator for recharging the battery.

Or just imagine if Yamaha or Honda decided to insert a HV battery between their ICE and the inverter. The ICE would only need to run when the load had depleted the battery. Do exactly the same but use the existing ICE under the hood of the truck to drive like a PTO-electric charging motor of the HV battery and then put the 120-240V inverter on the back of the battery.

Probably far less weight than all the Hybrid gear required to participate in the drivetrain. Far less complicated management system. Nothing more than a tucked away ProPower generator.

I swear whoever tried it could upcharge just as much for the ProPower only system that Ford charges for the whole upgrade from 3.5 Ecoboost to 3.5 Powerboost Hybrid.

When you factor in what all the 'hybrid' system requires of the truck itself, it only ends up being $800. Heavier frame, suspension, 3.73 9.75", trailer hitch, etc...

Just wait until ford decides to replace the little motor and battery with the one that's been in the PHEV on the explorer chassis (while increasing that battery by 50%). There's no reason the thing couldn't provide power overnight without running the engine at all with a ~22kWh battery. 35-40 mile electric only range as well as 500hp and 730ftlb tq (3.5L - larger hybrid unit produces double the F150's current unit).

I expect it to show up in ~2 years or so, though they may just use the 3.0L for the F150 and save the 3.5L version for raptor / premium trims and SDs and up. A practical 'EV' that can tow. And of course if ford wanted, could easily option a 10-20kW inverter with it. You can source a 10kW inverter that'd eat the vehicle's HV output as it stands for $1,400. A 50kW 3 phase inverter.... $3k.

The current hybrid motor has a peak output of 40kW (electrical generating capability), if it's able to maintain a 50% duty cycle, that's 20kW of power that it could do all day long. It's a logical step (PHEV trucks). It will increase the weight another 300lbs, likely bumping the truck into the 7800lb GVWR.

 

[Porpoise Hork]

When you factor in what all the 'hybrid' system requires of the truck itself, it only ends up being $800. Heavier frame, suspension, 3.73 9.75", trailer hitch, etc...

Just wait until ford decides to replace the little motor and battery with the one that's been in the PHEV on the explorer chassis (while increasing that battery by 50%). There's no reason the thing couldn't provide power overnight without running the engine at all with a ~22kWh battery. 35-40 mile electric only range as well as 500hp and 730ftlb tq (3.5L - larger hybrid unit produces double the F150's current unit).

I'm actually quite surprised that Ford went with the current setup for the PB instead of this. Possibly something to do with reaching the upper limit of the 10R80 without having to rework it to handle that sort of sustained torque. I suspect you are correct that we'll see a PHEV F150 PB in a couple years that will put ours to shame.

 

[Snakebitten]

@HammaMan ,I really like your crystal ball!

I mean that sincerely. First, I love the idea of the 3.0 Ecoboost for being the ICE. I personally feel it's the best of the Ecoboost motors in many ways. I'm actually surprised that it hasn't replaced the 2.7 in the F150 yet. Isn't it actually the offspring of the 2.7 in many ways? (we have several 2016 2.7 F150's in the family fleet and they have been rock solid trucks)

You mentioned that the existing Powerboost electric motor has a peak output of 40KW. I had no idea what it's peak was but what voltage would you use to determine how many amps it's capable of pouring into the HV battery?

I ask because the highest number of charging amps I ever witness is in the 60-65Amps during regenerative braking, which is usually about ~280V?
And the rate of charge of that battery is amazing for those few seconds! I had no idea any kind of battery could charge at that rate. It's amazing.

I'm learning about all this Hybrid tech as fast as I can sponge. And I really appreciate the kind of information fellas like yourself take the time to share.

 

[Snakebitten]

I'm actually quite surprised that Ford went with the current setup for the PB instead of this. Possibly something to do with reaching the upper limit of the 10R80 without having to rework it to handle that sort of sustained torque. I suspect you are correct that we'll see a PHEV F150 PB in a couple years that will put ours to shame.

Based on the theory that it takes at least 3 years from concept to production, the Powerboost would have been designed on paper at least far back as 2017, about the time the Gen2 3.5 Ecoboost was released.
Ford had poured a ton of motor equity into the halo-Ecoboost and basically declared that the original F150 Ecoboost experiment (2011-2016) was no longer an experiment.

So I was a little less surprised that they chose it to be the platform for their first dabble in "electrifying a Ford Truck"

Of course present day, the world is a very different place than 2017. An understatement, admittedly.
And so it's fascinating to me where this first generation Powerboost will lead. I personally think its quick embrace by the public truck buyer exceeded Ford's expectations. But now I bet they are anything but gunshy going forward.

 

[HammaMan]

Based on the theory that it takes at least 3 years from concept to production, the Powerboost would have been designed on paper at least far back as 2017, about the time the Gen2 3.5 Ecoboost was released.
Ford had poured a ton of motor equity into the halo-Ecoboost and basically declared that the original F150 Ecoboost experiment (2011-2016) was no longer an experiment.

Well they've been playing with 'hybrid' stuff for 20 years now. The BECM unit on the battery is the same part used in, among other vehicles, the hybrid escape and dates back many years. The extended transmission bellhousing on the 10 speed first showed up stateside in the hybrid explorer which was kinda technically their first 'truck' hybrid using the 3.0 and the same hybrid driveline (mostly, 10 speed and electric motor). While I haven't taken either of them apart, the F150's torque converter looks to be more conventional while it seems the explorer platform uses something a little different. Almost looks like a wet clutch.

Take a look at the lincoln aviator GT and up lines. 3.0L w/ PHEV system (~14kWh batt), 495hp and 630ftlb tq. The same vehicle less the PHEV driveline uses the same 3.0L ecoboost motor, though from the numbers I suspect the PHEV is slightly detuned as I know the electric motor they use adds more than the delta of the 2 vehicles rated specs. They do however let the electric motor loose on the low end, 630ftlb of torque at 2250 RPM -- weeeeee. The weight difference, 4862lbs 3.0L vs 5673lbs 3.0L+PHEV equipment (+800lbs.)

Given the choice though I'd rather have the 3.0 Diesel or coyote motor as the ICE. Diesel likes to be warm and with a 20+ kWh battery, it'd be easy to make it work. No need for constant start / stop, it can turn on, charge the system up while heating up the engine and shutoff. No engine likes being started and stopped constantly unless it's warmed up.

Regardless, the push to strict EV doesn't make sense if you actually tow. Perhaps we'll end up seeing something more realistic like a flat 4 motor power unit connected directly to a generator that allows for hybrids that are EVs w/ ~50kWh batteries and when towing, the ICE runs strictly as a generator to provide continual power and therefore good range and fast refueling. Watching these people try and pull a ~30ft travel trailer with a lightning having to stop every 2 hours to charge for an hour shows quite clearly that's not a viable solution. We're still a long way off (technologically and time) and a good trillion $ away from practical EV heavy-haul.

 

[Atlee]

Well they've been playing with 'hybrid' stuff for 20 years now. The BECM unit on the battery is the same part used in, among other vehicles, the hybrid escape and dates back many years. The extended transmission bellhousing on the 10 speed first showed up stateside in the hybrid explorer which was kinda technically their first 'truck' hybrid using the 3.0 and the same hybrid driveline (mostly, 10 speed and electric motor). While I haven't taken either of them apart, the F150's torque converter looks to be more conventional while it seems the explorer platform uses something a little different. Almost looks like a wet clutch.

Take a look at the lincoln aviator GT and up lines. 3.0L w/ PHEV system (~14kWh batt), 495hp and 630ftlb tq. The same vehicle less the PHEV driveline uses the same 3.0L ecoboost motor, though from the numbers I suspect the PHEV is slightly detuned as I know the electric motor they use adds more than the delta of the 2 vehicles rated specs. They do however let the electric motor loose on the low end, 630ftlb of torque at 2250 RPM -- weeeeee. The weight difference, 4862lbs 3.0L vs 5673lbs 3.0L+PHEV equipment (+800lbs.)

Given the choice though I'd rather have the 3.0 Diesel or coyote motor as the ICE. Diesel likes to be warm and with a 20+ kWh battery, it'd be easy to make it work. No need for constant start / stop, it can turn on, charge the system up while heating up the engine and shutoff. No engine likes being started and stopped constantly unless it's warmed up.

Regardless, the push to strict EV doesn't make sense if you actually tow. Perhaps we'll end up seeing something more realistic like a flat 4 motor power unit connected directly to a generator that allows for hybrids that are EVs w/ ~50kWh batteries and when towing, the ICE runs strictly as a generator to provide continual power and therefore good range and fast refueling. Watching these people try and pull a ~30ft travel trailer with a lightning having to stop every 2 hours to charge for an hour shows quite clearly that's not a viable solution. We're still a long way off (technologically and time) and a good trillion $ away from practical EV heavy-haul.

That "flat 4 motor power unit" idea is how I always imagined hybrids would be. A relative small economical ICE engine to power generators to provide electricity to the wheels.

 

[FrankThompson]

That "flat 4 motor power unit" idea is how I always imagined hybrids would be. A relative small economical ICE engine to power generators to provide electricity to the wheels.

This is essentially how the Chevy Volt worked, right? The gas engine was only ever used as an on-board generator to charge the batteries. the car was always only propelled by the electric motors. This gave you range and ease at the fill up pump if needed while optimizing the ICE's efficiency since they tend to have specific RPM they are more efficient at.

 

[sempifi99]

Maybe I missed it but what brand of charger is that?

 

[Yves]

Maybe I missed it but what brand of charger is that?

If you are referring to the Volt, then the generator is built-in to the car.

 

[Snakebitten]

Well they've been playing with 'hybrid' stuff for 20 years now. The BECM unit on the battery is the same part used in, among other vehicles, the hybrid escape and dates back many years. The extended transmission bellhousing on the 10 speed first showed up stateside in the hybrid explorer which was kinda technically their first 'truck' hybrid using the 3.0 and the same hybrid driveline (mostly, 10 speed and electric motor). While I haven't taken either of them apart, the F150's torque converter looks to be more conventional while it seems the explorer platform uses something a little different. Almost looks like a wet clutch.

Take a look at the lincoln aviator GT and up lines. 3.0L w/ PHEV system (~14kWh batt), 495hp and 630ftlb tq. The same vehicle less the PHEV driveline uses the same 3.0L ecoboost motor, though from the numbers I suspect the PHEV is slightly detuned as I know the electric motor they use adds more than the delta of the 2 vehicles rated specs. They do however let the electric motor loose on the low end, 630ftlb of torque at 2250 RPM -- weeeeee. The weight difference, 4862lbs 3.0L vs 5673lbs 3.0L+PHEV equipment (+800lbs.)

Given the choice though I'd rather have the 3.0 Diesel or coyote motor as the ICE. Diesel likes to be warm and with a 20+ kWh battery, it'd be easy to make it work. No need for constant start / stop, it can turn on, charge the system up while heating up the engine and shutoff. No engine likes being started and stopped constantly unless it's warmed up.

Regardless, the push to strict EV doesn't make sense if you actually tow. Perhaps we'll end up seeing something more realistic like a flat 4 motor power unit connected directly to a generator that allows for hybrids that are EVs w/ ~50kWh batteries and when towing, the ICE runs strictly as a generator to provide continual power and therefore good range and fast refueling. Watching these people try and pull a ~30ft travel trailer with a lightning having to stop every 2 hours to charge for an hour shows quite clearly that's not a viable solution. We're still a long way off (technologically and time) and a good trillion $ away from practical EV heavy-haul.

Again thanks.
I haven't been paying attention to the Lincoln line for sure and was unaware of the 3.0 already being used for Hybrid/Plug-ins

That's actually encouraging. I don't dislike the idea of the Coyote or diesel, but I really enjoy the way the 2.7, 3.0, 3.5 make their torque curve while burning gasoline. I came from the 7.3 diesel world and so it's those motors that bridged me over as diesel became the despised fuel.

On that subject, it appears the initial deadline for ICE in 2030 has recently been extended to 2035, and even then there would be enough exceptions in the "truck" world that Hybrid technology will be legal. (reality eventually gets a say) So in these very early examples of the electrification of trucks, I'm actually enjoying the early adoption and now even more intrigued with where it's going.

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